The PACT program from the point of view of a PACT sailor
Many of you have kids who have no doubt been offered the Professional Apprentice Career Tract by their recruiters. They no doubt have been sold on the numerous benefits of the PACT program. The ability to shop around for rates, on the job training, striking the rating of their choice etc. I have had the horrible misfortune of being a PACT sailor for 6 months now and I am here to STRONGLY discourage ANYONE from choosing this career path.
The PACT program has been nothing short of an absolute failure. While its goals may have been admirable, in reality it is one of the absolute worst aspects of the United States Navy.
For starters, rates are difficult to come by. When a sailor arrives at their duty station they will have a Career Development Board (CDB) with their departmental career counselor and division officer. All their pertinent information (age, ASVAB score, year group, prior NJPs) will then be entered into Career Waypoint (CWAY). This information will then be used to determine what rates the student is eligible for. So far so good. Every month the rating options will be presented to the sailor and they will be allowed to choose their top 3 rates. This is where everything begins to go off the rails. What the recruiters don't tell you is that only a small number of billets on each ship are available per rate and they will only take a small number of applicants. In February of this year my ship had 146 PACT sailors eligible to strike for rates. Of those that were eligible, only 4 or 2.7% were picked up. I say eligible because, as the recruiters may not tell you, a sailor must be at a rank of E3 to even be eligible to strike for a rate. It should be noted at this point that any sailor who has been on board for over a year will be given the option of striking for an A school rate. If your sailor has come in as an E3 and wants to strike an A school rate, or if he/she has been dropped from another program (nuke and SpecOps being the most common) then they will be required to wait a year on board prior to being given the option of being picked up. You are given the option to decline, however, this is often easier said than done. I have been declining rates for my entire time of board and have been on the receiving end of harassment from my entire chain of command, from the career counselor all the way up to the CMC. I have been insulted, coerced, and even threatened with disciplinary action if I did not start listing rates. If your sailor is in PACT make sure they understand that it is THEIR career, and ultimately THEY are the ones who govern it.
When it comes time to actual pick a rate do not expect it to come quickly (if at all) I know several sailors who have been striking for rates over a year and have not yet been picked up for anything. Apart from being incredibly frustrating, it is potentially disastrous for any long term career plan in the navy. If you want to stay in for more than a 4 year enlistment you absolutely have to be an E4 prior to your 4 year mark. Otherwise you will be high year tenured out. If your sailor strikes into a over manned rate they can expect to have to take the test multiple times before being able to advance. When you have already spent 2 years without being able to advance it can be difficult make E4 in time. Furthermore it is extremely disheartening to see your shipmates making rank while you are still swabbing the deck after two years. Advancement will be significantly hampered by the fact that most of the time you will have little to no experience doing your job as OJT options are severely limited.
Options for on the job training have been virtually absent. Our assistant first lieutenant (AFL) has openly admitted to us the promises of OJT during working ours is a lie. You will be sent directly to deck department where you will be chipping paint, repainting what you just chipped, and sweeping floors. In general the work you will be performing is the scut work of the US Navy. Further more you will be working with Boatswains Mates. While I am loathe to generalize an entire rate based of my ship alone I will say that the vast majority of the BMs I work for are a motely crew of individuals to say the best. They are with a few exceptions, rude, ignorant, less than intelligent, crass and dishonest. They do little in the way of real work, instead delegating it to the PACT sailors, and then taking all credit for the work that was performed. Further more unless you have explicitly stated to them that you want to strike BM they will generally treat their PACT sailors as second class citizens.
It should be noted that we are given the "option" of performing OJT after hours. This is somewhat difficult however, as deck department tends to work longer hours than any other department on the ship, both underway on in port. working hours in port are typically 9-12 hours in port and upwards of 20 hours underway. In port if the sailor has a family their options for OJT will be severely limited and even a single sailor will be hard pressed to have any life outside of work if he finds someone willing to take the time work with him or her.
Recruiters lie. This should be the first thing any aspiring sailor realizes for their first visit. Their job is to get you to sign a contract and nothing more. Be sure your thoroughly research all of your options prior to enlisting. If you go to MEPS and PACT is the only thing offered then I highly advise you wait a month to see if anything else opens up. Or if need be retake the ASVAB until you are qualified for a decent rate. If the recruiter tries to pressure you into taking a PACT contract just remember that it is your career and until you have been sworn in you are not required to do anything they tell you to.
If the worst has happened and you do go in as a PACT sailor, or if you have been dropped from another program and this was your only option, then do everything you can to pick up a rate and do it quickly. Retake your ASVAB, get your qualifications ASAP, work hard to get good evals, what ever it takes. And above all remember, no matter what your chain of command tell you it is still your career. They cannot bully, bribe, force, or coerce you into a job just because they have an anchor on their uniform. Your future is still yours. It just takes a little longer to get there.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Kristopher R. Knue on
-
Ben,
I know your frustration and have comments for others reading this post. I agree, the PACT program and other names it has been given over the years is a good plan on paper. In reality it's something a modern navy needs to leave back in the last century. As a former recruiter it was a package I hoped didn't come up when I had an applicant at MEPS. But, back then we had a 600 ship navy to man so people took the slot.
The oxymoron of the issue is the program is offered to people who generally have a low qualifying ASVAB score but not high enough for an A-school to be available at the time. With respect, this is the type person who didn't do well in high school and lacked some initiative. Now their career path is built on the assumption that they get initiative and are smart enough to learn a technical trade on their own, vice A school.
On paper this program relies on good leadership and mentoring. Many times the tempo of the command doesn't go with this idea. Many good Chiefs and LPO's out there genuinely want their people to succeed but lack the skill to help them get a complicated program to work.
One last piece to this response. Recruiters of all services have had a notorious wrap for years. I'll agree there are some out there that say whatever it takes to get the job done. Back in the 80's we put in 15 hour days doing this. But don't automatically classify all as liars. Many times I left out things that I felt the applicant didn't need to know, or didn't want to know. On one occasion I failed to tell a guy he had to quit smoking when he went to boot camp. If I had he never would have went. The recruiter opens the door for you to enter the navy. The MEPS gets you qualified for services or not. The classifier finds you a job in the navy. He has what the needs of the navy are and fits you in. Just like looking for a civilian job anywhere else, it's what you are qualified for and what the hiring manager needs at the time.
Keep on pluggin away as a PACT sailor. You may have been dealt a bad hand but play it through and get the best from it. Attitude is everything, in the navy and in life.
R/
Kris Knue
IMC(SW) Ret.
-
-
I just read Ben's post and found it a little unsettling. My son is currently at Great Lakes and graduates 1/29/16. His Asvab scores were high enough that he could have picked a rate within Aviation. He knew he wanted Aviation but wasn't sure exactly what in Aviation he wanted to do. He thought this would be a great way to experience the different jobs available to him, therefore, choosing the right job for him. We compared it to a freshman's first year college experience; you take several different classes to find yourself and choose a major that you love. After reading this I now wonder if he was given bad advice by his recruiter. Does anyone have any positive things to say about this program? Much thanks.
-
Permalink Reply by NavyDads Admin (Paul) on
-
In general the PACT program is considered a poor choice. Needs of the Navy always come first and conversely if there is no need then the sailor gets stuck with jobs generally considered undesirable. All I can say is that the Navy is working to improve the program as they realize there are issues with it. Have you sailor work HARD, be aggressive and strike for a rate as soon as he can......
-
-
I figured as much. Thanks for your reply.
-
-
Thank you for the advice, I am going to pass it on.
-
-
Courtney,
I share your concern. My son also had ASVAB scores high enough to pick a rate, but none of the rates he was offered by the recruiter were familiar to him. He was also fired up to get in and when they said that boot camp would be in March for a rate, but he could go in December if he went PACT, he chose PACT. We tried to change it afterwards, but there was little interest in this happening on the part of the Navy. I am now just hoping that he doesn't have a bad experience in the Navy, learns a lot of valuable life lessons, and can come out and find a good career. He originally thought he might be career Navy, but it sounds as if he is starting with his hands tied.
Courtney d'Entremont said:I just read Ben's post and found it a little unsettling. My son is currently at Great Lakes and graduates 1/29/16. His Asvab scores were high enough that he could have picked a rate within Aviation. He knew he wanted Aviation but wasn't sure exactly what in Aviation he wanted to do. He thought this would be a great way to experience the different jobs available to him, therefore, choosing the right job for him. We compared it to a freshman's first year college experience; you take several different classes to find yourself and choose a major that you love. After reading this I now wonder if he was given bad advice by his recruiter. Does anyone have any positive things to say about this program? Much thanks.
-
-
Hi Doug,
I tried to talk my son out of it as well but he was set on it. After I wrote my response here, I found some chat groups of other parents in the same boat. The parents felt like we did but they all said the same thing....their kids did not. The majority of kids that chose this path did not regret it. They said they definitely worked their butts off but over all, they were happy with their choice. I would have liked something different for my son but this is what he wanted. My hope is that he will also be part of the group of Sailors with no regrets! Good luck to your Sailor.
-
-
Hi Steve,
I work for DoDea. Our school is very old and they still have a boiler! They are hoping to update the school and the boiler! Lol Thanks for your input. When I first started researching the PACT program it was really hard to find a positive article on this program. As I said earlier, until I found the chat group and read that the kids felt they had made the right decision, I really had my doubts. It helps to finally read some positive stuff on this program so thank-you!
MISSION STATEMENT:
NavyDads mission is to Provide Support, Encouragement, and Knowledge to Sailors and their Families throughout their Journey together in the United States Navy.
NavyDads can only succeed with your help. We receive no outside funding and every dollar you donate helps us cover operating costs and helps keep this site running.
KEY INFORMATION
Community Guidelines
How To Get Started
Boot Camp Group
Navy Enlisted Rates & Non-Commissioned Officers Rates
Navy Lingo & Slang
Navy Links
U.S. Navy Ships
Delayed Entry Program
Red Cross Services for Military Families
Google-Based NavyDads Search
Events
Blog Posts
Phishing for Info
Posted by Michael J Conway on April 18, 2023 at 4:08pm 0 Comments 0 Likes
USPS MILITARYKIT - **FREE**
Posted by Joseph Hernandez on January 28, 2023 at 11:54am 1 Comment 1 Like
Before A School
Posted by Philip Steinert on January 2, 2023 at 2:10pm 2 Comments 0 Likes
My little sailor
Posted by william joseph wolfcale on December 3, 2022 at 4:08pm 2 Comments 2 Likes
my dad skII Wolfcale
Posted by william joseph wolfcale on December 3, 2022 at 4:00pm 0 Comments 0 Likes
Off to A School
Posted by Michael J Conway on November 13, 2022 at 9:55pm 1 Comment 0 Likes
Son leaves for San Diego
Posted by Jeff J Sperekas on June 25, 2022 at 7:33pm 1 Comment 0 Likes
Requesting a re-assignment
Posted by Wesley Scott Phillips on January 5, 2022 at 11:37am 3 Comments 0 Likes
CHIEF PETTY OFFICER
Posted by John W Hensman on October 9, 2021 at 4:21pm 0 Comments 1 Like
Form letter
Posted by John D O'Rourke on September 16, 2021 at 5:58am 2 Comments 1 Like
Boot Camp
Posted by Mark F Durovka on March 22, 2021 at 8:46pm 2 Comments 2 Likes
RTC
Posted by Thomas ODonnell on January 10, 2021 at 3:00pm 7 Comments 0 Likes
Bittersweet Happiness
Posted by Jim Lisi on December 13, 2020 at 1:21pm 3 Comments 1 Like
Pride and Honor
Posted by Elliott Peigen on September 7, 2020 at 9:56am 2 Comments 0 Likes
Introducing Myself
Posted by John Lillyblad on March 18, 2020 at 4:38pm 5 Comments 0 Likes
Mail problems
Posted by Fernando Bolano on March 17, 2020 at 2:36pm 3 Comments 0 Likes
SHIP 06 DIV 100
Posted by Chris Koning on February 9, 2020 at 3:54pm 0 Comments 0 Likes
Ship 10 Div 114
Posted by Mike Cunningham on February 3, 2020 at 2:15pm 1 Comment 0 Likes
Day ONE
Posted by Mike Cunningham on January 15, 2020 at 1:23pm 2 Comments 0 Likes
Ship 2 Division 907
Posted by Mark Poindexter on December 17, 2019 at 2:36pm 0 Comments 0 Likes
© 2024 Created by E.G. - ND's Creator/Admin.
Powered by
