My son wants to be a Navy Nuke.

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Brunson on January 18, 2011 at 6:32pm

Congratulations to your son for setting the bar high.  Navy Nuclear Propulsion is a tough, demanding program that can offer tremendous post-Navy rewards.  The job itself while in can be frustrating and hours-intensive with minimal immediate reward, but for those who keep their eye on the prize and maximize their education benefit while in, can result in tremendous marketability after his career.

 

First off- myth:  All nukes go on to work at nuclear plants.  Actually, the opposite is true.  Most nukes do not, they work in just about any demanding, high reward field.  Nukes are well known as analytical thinkers, willing to go the extra mile and highly adaptable, and thus are in demand by many employers.  Many do enter the commercial nuclear industry, and that can be tremendously rewarding in itself.

 

Second- training is not so much difficult, high-level material, the biggest issue most have is the volume and speed of the material.  Nuclear Power School is often likened to drinking from a firehose- lots of information in a short period of time.  Note taking skills and study habits are vitally important.

 

Third- Once he hits the fleet, it doesn't get easier, it can and often does get harder.  He will be handed a big stack of qualification cards (the method he will use to become certified to operate the propulsion plant) and given a set of goals to attain.  It will likely seem insurmountable at first, but with some effort and open ears and eyes, he will do just fine.  Just remember that the end result is worth it.

 

Good luck to your son Sam, if you have any questions, this is a good place to ask them. I'm willing to help in anyway!

Permalink Reply by Mary Rose Hildinger on January 20, 2011 at 3:02am

NavyDads Admin (Paul) said:

One other item...your sailor has to self-motivated to do what whatever it takes.  If he is used to being told to study this and that and being led by the hand rather than getting in there and tackling the learning materials head on he may some some issues.  "The fear of failure is the death of success"

Permalink Reply by Mary Rose Hildinger on January 20, 2011 at 3:06am

I agree that are sons and daughters need to be able to handle situations where they are pushed to a certain level, they need to live and learn, but when it becomes to much there should be people in the Navy to help them cope, not just push them aside or demean them. My son was a very strong young man, something happened along the way that made him break. All the unanswered questions dont make sense. There has to be something else to help them deal with the pressure. Mary from NY

Permalink Reply by Chuck Brunson on January 20, 2011 at 11:34am

Mary,

There are no words that can be said to ease the pain you must be feeling, and I could not blame you one single bit for holding the Navy responsible for your son's death.  I served 4 years as a Leading Crew Chief on one of the Moored Training Ships in Charleston and I spent the majority of my time observing the students for signs of despair and excessive pressure.  At least on a couple of occassions I intervened to remove a student from training so that they could get counseling and assistance.  The assistance is available, oftentimes the students are afraid or unwilling to ask for it.  It is an unfortunate truth that instructors and supervisors frequently become so task-oriented that oversight of students well-being gets pushed to the back.  I caught myself in that trap from time to time, but I strongly believed in the staff advisor program (also called "Sea Dads") and demanded of my staff that they become intrusive in their interactions with their "Sea Pup".

 

At least at the prototype, we had begun to enforce "intrusive leadership", mandating minimum steps a staff advisor must take to ensure a student's well being while training there.  If a student chose to live off-base, the staff member was to request a visit at the student's home.  All too often I found deplorable living conditions that added addtional stress on the student.  I had resources through the chain of command as well as the Navy housing office on base that could pressure the property manager into making things right.  If roommates were the problem, typically they were sailors themselves and that was easily fixed through their own chain of command.  Other items required were verifying a reliable means of transportation to and from work, proper nutrition, personal hygiene, and reports up the chain on the student's general emotional health.

 

Of course there is suicide prevention training, but if one single sailor is lost to suicide, it is ineffective.  I've often lamented that the short amount of initial training most instructors get is not enough to equip them to handle the problems that young sailors deal with.  More intensive training in the area of assisting emotionally distressed sailors is sorely needed.  Every single life is precious, parents and loved ones send them to us and expect that we will do everything in our power to ensure their child or loved one's safety.

 

Again, I am terribly sorry for your loss.

 

Chuck Brunson
EMCS(SS), USN (Retired)

Mary Rose Hildinger said:

I agree that are sons and daughters need to be able to handle situations where they are pushed to a certain level, they need to live and learn, but when it becomes to much there should be people in the Navy to help them cope, not just push them aside or demean them. My son was a very strong young man, something happened along the way that made him break. All the unanswered questions dont make sense. There has to be something else to help them deal with the pressure. Mary from NY

Permalink Reply by EM3 Espada on January 20, 2011 at 4:27pm

I joined this forum to respond specifically to this. I was in Power School last July, and I remember the week we lost two students to suicide. I am so sorry for your family and for your son. I'm sorry the command failed him so completely.

 

After the second suicide, all of our instructors and SLPO came by our section and talked about all the options for counseling. Whether talking to your SLPO, your instructor, or other staff or fellow students, they told us to talk to others and ask for help. Unfortunately, there is a very deep fear of getting kicked out of the program for seeking help, and it's not unfounded. One of my classmates got de-nuked a few weeks later for his inability to cope with the stress. After putting in so much time and effort, after getting so caught up in the program, the thought of getting kicked out for asking for help in a rough time is enough to seal your lips shut.

 

Things do seem a bit different in Ballston Spa; we do have confidential counsellors who show up on site once a week, and are available at the support activity down the road more frequently. Nothing you say can be used to get you out of the program. The staff here are as varied as they were back in Charleston. Some instructors and staff members do care, and some are absolute nightmares. Unfortunately, it comes down to luck of the draw when you get assigned to a staff advisor and a section. Some staff stop caring about their students, and the worst start antagonizing them. 

 

It's hard for recruiters to emphasize just how stressful this program can be; they have to get people to join the program, after all. And you can't do it justice unless you've been through it, but very few Nukes become recruiters. My recruiter was a Nuke EM, but I got the feeling he was a recruiter because he wasn't very good at being a Nuke.

 

Things do need to change, and I hope at least that your son will have been the catalyst for it. But imperfect people are in the Navy, and sometimes people slip through the cracks of it all.

 

My deepest condolences, Mary. I wish you and your family all the best.

 

Mary Rose Hildinger said:

Hello Sam. I am new to the website. I hope your son is doing well. My son graduated in March and went to Nuke school in Charleston SC. He passed away 6 weeks later. Make sure you find out as much as you can. There is alot of pressure on those young men and women. I wish your son the best.
Mary in NY.

 

Permalink Reply by GP on January 21, 2011 at 8:59am

Thank you for your insight.  My son also stated that Ballston and Charleston are like night and day.

EM3 Espada said:

I joined this forum to respond specifically to this. I was in Power School last July, and I remember the week we lost two students to suicide. I am so sorry for your family and for your son. I'm sorry the command failed him so completely.

 

After the second suicide, all of our instructors and SLPO came by our section and talked about all the options for counseling. Whether talking to your SLPO, your instructor, or other staff or fellow students, they told us to talk to others and ask for help. Unfortunately, there is a very deep fear of getting kicked out of the program for seeking help, and it's not unfounded. One of my classmates got de-nuked a few weeks later for his inability to cope with the stress. After putting in so much time and effort, after getting so caught up in the program, the thought of getting kicked out for asking for help in a rough time is enough to seal your lips shut.

 

Things do seem a bit different in Ballston Spa; we do have confidential counsellors who show up on site once a week, and are available at the support activity down the road more frequently. Nothing you say can be used to get you out of the program. The staff here are as varied as they were back in Charleston. Some instructors and staff members do care, and some are absolute nightmares. Unfortunately, it comes down to luck of the draw when you get assigned to a staff advisor and a section. Some staff stop caring about their students, and the worst start antagonizing them. 

 

It's hard for recruiters to emphasize just how stressful this program can be; they have to get people to join the program, after all. And you can't do it justice unless you've been through it, but very few Nukes become recruiters. My recruiter was a Nuke EM, but I got the feeling he was a recruiter because he wasn't very good at being a Nuke.

 

Things do need to change, and I hope at least that your son will have been the catalyst for it. But imperfect people are in the Navy, and sometimes people slip through the cracks of it all.

 

My deepest condolences, Mary. I wish you and your family all the best.

 

Mary Rose Hildinger said:

Hello Sam. I am new to the website. I hope your son is doing well. My son graduated in March and went to Nuke school in Charleston SC. He passed away 6 weeks later. Make sure you find out as much as you can. There is alot of pressure on those young men and women. I wish your son the best.
Mary in NY.

 

Permalink Reply by Mary Rose Hildinger on January 27, 2011 at 2:20am

I hope your son does well, but be prepared for things beyond your control. Common sense is one thing, but depression and the pressure of having to be perfect is another and what they are going to have to encounter eventually. That is something I want to have changed. Our sons and daughters are told by their recruiters how great and satisfying "their new" career is going to be, but they dont prepare them for what kind of pressure they are going to be under. We as parents have an obligation to make sure that they get that help when needed. It is too late for my son, but I will do whatever it takes to help out other soldiers.

Mary Rose Hildinger said:

My son had common sense Mike and I understand where you are getting at. He was intelligent and talented and very smart in all ways. The military let him down. There is not enough preparation for how hard it is for them in there. He was an academic honors student, athelete and all around happy young man. His recruitor didnt prepare him nor did the Navy in general prepare him for how hard it would be. There has to be something done. I wish your son the best.

Mike K said:

My son has just completed his comps and oral boards for prototype and is set to graduate this Friday.  He has been assigned to a sub which was his choice.  In general there is no question this is one of the toughest, if not the toughest training programs in the armed forces.  The one thing that sticks out in my mind that my son told me about nukes is that they are some of the brightest people he has ever known, but at times tend to lack common sense and some have done some rather stupid things that have cost them dearly, so really be careful what you do. Another thing is that the instructors, and really everyone there is there to be of help.  The training is extremely tough but all are there to help you succeed and want you to succeed.  My son is set to report to his boat exactly 2 years to the day from his entry into boot camp, so it is a long grind.  If anyone has any specific questions I will gladly try to help.

From what I know, much of what William said is true.  The one point I should mention is that the once a nuke always a nuke is not necessarily correct.  He is right in that you can not simply un-volunteer, though there were several nukes that for grade reasons and or behavioral reasons(common sense) were de-nuked.  Some who failed A school were released from the Navy.  You earn your rating out of A school so if you fail later or do something you shouldn't, you get de-nuked and become a non nuke MM, EM or ET in the non nuclear Navy.

Permalink Reply by JB on January 27, 2011 at 3:08pm

My son just completed nuclear training - passed his final boards yesterday. From all that he has told me - having a very strong math and science background was extremely helpful and having the drive to succeed was also important. He said that prototype was the hardest to him because of the shift work and the hours. Power school was mentally challenging, but he enjoyed that part of the training. I am not sure what happens if you do not make it - from what he told me there were several in his section that did not make it and the were reassigned. He is not sure what they are doing now. My son said that it was a long hard road, but very satisfying when you go through boards and they tell you that you are now qualified and part of the nuclear navy.

Permalink Reply by GP on January 31, 2011 at 8:59am

Congrats to you and your son.   My son completed his boards 2 weeks ago and voiced the same opinions on shift work and hours.  He said it's necessary to keep you on your toes so you are always ready at a moments notice.  There is no timetable out at sea.

 

 

JB said:

My son just completed nuclear training - passed his final boards yesterday. From all that he has told me - having a very strong math and science background was extremely helpful and having the drive to succeed was also important. He said that prototype was the hardest to him because of the shift work and the hours. Power school was mentally challenging, but he enjoyed that part of the training. I am not sure what happens if you do not make it - from what he told me there were several in his section that did not make it and the were reassigned. He is not sure what they are doing now. My son said that it was a long hard road, but very satisfying when you go through boards and they tell you that you are now qualified and part of the nuclear navy.

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