Tough time at Proto

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael E. on June 26, 2012 at 9:19pm

My Son was also having these issues, after many discussions I convinced him to start asking for some help from the instructors.  It is not a bad thing for him to ask. They really want your son to succeed.

My son is now deployed on the Alberquerque.

Permalink Reply by Charles on June 26, 2012 at 9:32pm

Thanks, We live about 2 1/2 hours away so he might be home tomorrow night. I'll talk to him about that.

Michael E. said:

My Son was also having these issues, after many discussions I convinced him to start asking for some help from the instructors.  It is not a bad thing for him to ask. They really want your son to succeed.

My son is now deployed on the Alberquerque.

Permalink Reply by jeremy mcelroy on June 27, 2012 at 3:03pm

He has an instructor that is "in charge" of him. If he hasn't already he needs to talk to them and let them know before it comes to be too much of an issue. They will help him along the path to succeed, especially since if the student is having troubles and has to stay at work longer to get ahead then so does the instructor.

Permalink Reply by Michael Stephens on June 27, 2012 at 5:08pm

My son just completed A-School. He indicated that each class has a SOPO and part of their job is to help the students. He mentioned that they may grouse (a mild way of putting it) about it some, but tell your son to hang in there and get the help, no mater how it might be dished out.

Permalink Reply by Eric S. on June 27, 2012 at 9:25pm

Hi Charles, my boy was having the same issues. Fell behind getting his checkouts, had a hard time getting in to see anyone. He had to really scramble the last couple weeks, he passed his final and and the oral exam, it was just really hard for him to get his checkouts. He did finally get everything in.  Just make sure he's persistant and forceful, probably going to have to be pain in the neck to someone, and obnoxious, but, he's gotta do it.

Permalink Reply by Zazzws on July 1, 2012 at 8:12pm

http://swordvspen.blogspot.com/2009/01/navy-prototype-rundown-balls...

Navy Prototype Rundown (Ballston Spa version)

I figured I'd give a quick rundown of what to expect. The site up here in NY has gone through a couple shutdowns and as a result there has been a major training holdup. But I've been here long enough to easily lend insight. This is going to be focused on the MARF plant (vice S8G, the other plant on site) but will be similar to your experience in NY.

First 8 Weeks

The first eight weeks you are in the Off-Crew Training Group. The very first week starts on a Monday and is somewhat similar to power school: lots of briefs, lots of waiting. You'll be given a small packet to memorize so that you can take a test on that Wednesday or Thursday. Passing the test (and everyone does) certifies you as a limited rad worker, grants you your TLD and with it access to the plant. You'll also be given your qual standard this week. The qual standard is a 2" binder filled with signature blocks. Basically, once you have every signature, you're qualified and graduate. Each signature is worth a certain number of points which vary with the difficulty of the subject and/or depth of knowledge required.

Weeks 2-8 begin the qualification process. Hooray! The good news is that you work Monday-Friday. The "bad" news is that you're on 12 hour days. There is the potential of getting put on reduced hours for above-average performance and typically Friday is an 8.5hr day, but this will depend on the officer in charge and how he likes to run things.

While in off-crew you DO NOT stand watch. You are encouraged to go to the plant often to trace out systems, see the plant in action and to touch nothing. You do, however, start knocking out signatures. This brings up two major topics:

The Curve

As I mentioned earlier, each signature has an associated point value. This is intended to give the Navy a baseline view of your progress. Based on past data points of student performance, a curve was developed to let you know exactly how much progress you need to make a day to (theoretically) graduate on time. Your status above/behind the curve is posted daily and is a huge motivator. Those who fall way behind are penalized with plus hours (typically "plus twos", two extra hours a day..14hrs of fun). Conversely those who are ahead of the curve can be rewarded with reduced hours. It can be frustrating on days packed with training events where you receive no points and the curve moves on regardless. Don't worry, everyone is in the same boat, and these days typically average out with days you bank tons of points.

Earning Points

Signatures (and the points that result from them) can be earned in many forms. Some training events are worth points, exams are worth points, standing watch is worth points and finally getting "checkouts" are worth points. Obtaining checkouts is your major objective in off-crew. It breaks down like this: you pick a subject in your qual standard to study. You are provided packets full of summarized notes on each subject, so you study those notes. Then you go to the off-crew library and check out the reference books on that subject and look through them. After that, you go to the computer lab and take a quiz on that subject. If you pass the quiz successfully, you print out the page and now you're ready to obtain a checkout on the subject. Checkouts must be given by a staff member qualified in that subject. These staff members can be tracked down in two ways: One, by placing your name in a time slot on a "cube list" first thing in the morning. Two, by asking staff members during their free time.

Side note: This is where your ability to finesse the system comes into play. Staff members are there 'for you' but in general want nothing to do with you. Persistence is key, but you have to toe the line a little bit so you're not obnoxious and annoying. The best advice I can give is to have several subjects ready to go so you can hit up multiple staff members. You'll get alot of "come back in X minutes" or "X hours". Do so.

Checkouts consist of you (and often a partner) standing in front of a whiteboard. You'll be asked to draw things, explain things, discuss things. If you have "2.5 knowledge", they sign your book and off you go. Every checkout is different based on the subject, the staff member's mood and your level of knowledge. Checkouts start out a little nervewracking but are pretty fun after you get used to them.

Side note: Staff members are almost entirely enlisted sailors. Half of them are first class sea returnees. The other half are student pick-ups. Enlisted students who show above average proficiency at prototype can be picked up as staff. They are promoted to second class and get a couple years tacked on to their time in NY before they go out to sea. Look for most of the staffers to treat you pretty much like crap. You are at their mercy and to be honest there isn't much you can do about it. Some guys just take it and some guys (especially the O-2 SWO nukes out there) really rile against it and occasionally get burned big time. Try to hit a happy medium.

At the end of your 8 weeks in off-crew you will take the off-crew exam. This exam is a few hours long, broken up into an electronic portion and a written portion. If you fail it (below 2.70), you will no longer be eligible for checkouts with a partner. 2-on-1 checkouts are not a benefit so much for the extra brain standing next to you as for the way they reduce competition for checkouts. One or two people failed the off-crew exam in our class. It's not the worst thing in the world and shouldn't really be stressed about. So, the exam is done and you're off to your new home, in Section.

In-Hull / On-Crew / In Section

During the end of your time in off-crew you'll be given the current schedule at the plant. There are several sections whose schedules are slightly different so that the plant is manned 24/7. You'll have the opportunity to request the section whose schedule (or whatever) appeals most to you. Some people requested the same section as their roommates to allow them to carpool, some people chose a section whose days off better coincide with when they'd like to visit family. Most people got their selection, plus or minus. I did.

The Schedule

One of the "worst" parts about prototype is the schedule. It's pretty intense and a little hard to explain. But here goes. Basically you work 12 hour days, 7 days straight, rotating shift work, with a varying number of days off in between. A typical cycle is shown below:

Day 1-7 : Swing Shift, 1130-2330

Day 8-9: OFF (However, you start night shift at 1930 on Day 9. Essentially 1.5 days off)

Day 9-16: Night Shift, 1930-0730

Day 16-18: OFF (In this case, you get off at 0730 the morning of Day 16. Kinda like 3 days off.)

Day 19-26: Day Shift, 0730-1930

Day 27-28: OFF (Always a "normal" weekend. Off on Friday night, return Monday morning)

Day 29-32: T-Week, 0730-1930 (No watchstanding, staff goes through training. You study. Note the four day work week.)

Day 33-37: OFF!!! (This is your 4-day. It is glorious.)

Repeat.

If things are running smoothly and you graduate on time, you should complete this cycle 3-4 times. Aside from working ALOT, part of the stress comes from constantly adjusting your sleep schedule. You'll figure out what works for you.

Sweet bonus: There's a bar, called Trotters, in downtown Saratoga. After the last day of swing shift you'll find half of your section there, finding some liquid motivation to stay up all night/day to transition to the night shift. Pretty good time. Also, after your last night shift, Trotters opens at 7am for the Navy guys. Again, liquid motivation to stay up all day and attempt to get back on day schedule. It can kind of mess with your head, but so can ten pots of coffee and endless movies.

Watchstanding

I won't go into watchstanding too much other than to say it happens. As an officer, you'll try and complete all of your subordinate watchstations before you move into the Box. Watches are 4 hours long, you'll have an overinstruct, and you'll probably get yelled at alot. It's the nature of the business. Some days you might get put on "backers", where you'll stand 4 hour watches back-to-back. Exhausting but productive. That is the maximum hours of watch you are allowed to stand in one day as a student. For the rest of your day you will study and/or obtain checkouts.

Other Major Evolutions

In addition to checkouts and standing watch, there are a couple other big-ticket items. You'll take a 4-hour "50% Exam", stand a practice oral board (lovingly dubbed a 'murder board') and take an 8-hour "100% Exam" (broken up into 2 days, 4 hrs each). Once everything else is complete, your last two hurdles to qualification are your Final Oral Board and your Final Watch Board. Your oral board is more theory (remember power school??) and plant-systems oriented (draw this system, sketch this valve, explain this component, explain the reason for that), and it's done in front of 3 of the big-timers in your section. Your final watch is a 2-hr watch where you perform drills as EOOW and answer rapid-fire questions from the NR personnel present. After passing both, you are qualified EOOW at the plant and can then graduate. Hooyah.

I'm sure there are a few things I left out, but that is the big picture stuff. I'll edit it as I see fit, and answer any other questions I can in the comments. Overall, even with all the BS we've been going through up here, I've enjoyed prototype. It's much more dynamic than power school and, while it is certainly very challenging, it is "easier" in that you can throw verbatim memorization out the window. It's amazing how often I'll remember a paragraph of information I memorized in power school, but realize I had no idea what it actually meant until prototype. That's the nice thing about it: application of that knowledge. And the snowboarding in NY is great too.