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Comment by Kirk Brooks on August 22, 2012 at 10:22am

Joseph-Thank you for your comments and I absolutely agree with you that there is no one perfect candidate nor do I feel that any one party is capable of being all things to all people. I do feel that there is a large divide between acceptable and what we seem get on almost all levels of gov't anymore. I really feel that a shake-up is desperately needed to reinvigorate a floundering political landscape. At the age of 51 I've seen enough of US politics to know that we could do so much better if we would question the status quo of both prevailing parties with fervor and zeal. Sometimes the best compromise is one where no one is happy, at least then the things that unite us are much more visible than the things that divide us.

Steve B- Don't worry brother,I do lots of cardio ;D

Mr.Reel- I've been in the USW for 18 years. I've seen them do good things in the areas of safety(I work in an oil refinery) but I've also seen the worst they have to offer also. Many of those union stereotypes exist for a reason, and you know that. Also, I know at least a dozen union members who are so conservative in their philosophical and religious views that Limbaugh looks like a bleeding heart liberal by comparison. They rail against pro-choice, pro-gay marriage politicians,yet they vote a straight Dem ticket and donate money to the DNC because it's good for the union. Anymore most of us look at our union dues as nothing more than paying protection money to the mob because it's better than the hassle.

Comment by Jack Flash on August 22, 2012 at 9:59am

Steve B-- maybe ALL CAPS are convenient for you, but for the rest of us it makes it seem like you are SHOUTING.

 

Kirk Brooks-- nice dodge.  For someone quick to extoll the virtues of critical thinking, you might want to employ a little.  I noticed that you didn't answer one single question posed to you. There is a long arduous election run-up process with local and state battles, primary contests and grassroot efforts to put someone in place and on the ballot.  I guess the idea of this being like the Olympic trials and the final contest being like the Olympic "championship" was lost on you, but meh--- I'll try once more to make it more simple.

 

Like at kid at a school picnic you have the choice of a red popsicle or a blue popsicle. If you want a popsicle-- those are your choices.  No one is forcing you to have either, but if you really do want a popsicle at all, those are your only choices.  You have the right to say you prefer a rainbow popsicle, but you ain't gonna get one. 

 

Do you understand now?  I suppose your argument will be that "if enough people speak up and say that they are not satisfied with Red or Blue, that more choices will be offered in the future."  Maybe so.  But whining never ever changed a process.  It takes effort to change a system and your "protest vote" might make you feel better, but it won't make a difference.

 

It's funny how "hope and change" turned into -- there's no hope for any change.

 

As for the rest of your post-- it was based entirely on false premises.  Who says Romney and Ryan can't win?  The race is a dead heat, and Obama/Biden numbers are falling while Romney/Ryan are surging.  Why don't you clarify your position and answer the questions I asked of you?  Thanks. 

Comment by STEVE B on August 22, 2012 at 12:35am

ONE MORE THING: ANYONE WHO HAS EVER BEEN "FRUSTRATED" IN AN "HONEST DEBATE" WITH ME AND LEFT WHATEVER FORUM WE HAPPENED TO BE IN HAS HAD NO ONE TO BLAME BUT THEMSELVES. IT'S NOT MY FAULT IF SOMEONE DEBATES ME ARMED ONLY WITH A HANDFUL FEEL-GOOD B.S. AND GETS BROADSIDED WITH A HEAVY DOSE OF THE TRUTH AND SOME HARD-HITTING FACTS AND CAN'T HANDLE IT.

 

OK. YOUR TURN...

Comment by STEVE B on August 22, 2012 at 12:06am

MR. REEL: FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T KNOW HOW IN THE WORLD YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE, "...ALL JUST NEED SOMEONE TO CONFIRM (Y)OUR 'FEELINGS'." I TELL YOU WHAT: I DON'T NEED ANYONE TO CONFIRM ANYTHING FOR ME, MY FRIEND. AS A GROWN MAN, I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE - WHETHER YOU OR ANYONE ELSE AGREES WITH IT OR NOT.

 

SECOND: IT'S MY RIGHT TO "BASH THE GOVERNMENT" IN PUBLIC DISCOURSE. IN CASE YOU DIDN'T NOTICE, GIVEN YOUR SELF-PROCLAIMED POLITICAL PROWESS, THE MOST RECENT DISCUSSION HAS A FAIRLY OBVIOUS THEME: WE'RE GENERALLY FRUSTRATED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO HAVE SOME LIVELY AND FUN DEBATE IN DISCUSSING THE PERCEIVED FUTILITY OF THE SILENT MAJORITY. I THINK I CAN SPEAK FOR KIRK, JACK & JOSEPH WHEN I SAY THAT WE STILL BELIEVE IN THE AWESOME AND ENDURING POWER OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND LOVE OUR COUNTRY; WE'RE JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE DIRECTION IN WHICH IT APPEARS TO BE HEADED. AND WE'RE WONDERING WHO, IF ANYONE, IS QUALIFIED TO CAPTAIN THE SHIP RIGHT NOW. (THAT WAS A DELIBERATE  GRATUITOUS NAVAL REFERENCE)

 

THIRD: PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THOSE "FOX LIES" PEOPLE. PLEASE. THAT'S BECOMING CLICHE' AND NO ONE IS LISTENING ANYMORE - PROBABLY BECAUSE NONE OF THOSE IDIOTS CAN EVER GIVE A SINGLE EXAMPLE OF ANY SEMBLANCE OF A FALSEHOOD REPORTED ON FOX. I'M NOT SAYING EVERYTHING ON THE FOX CHANNEL IS THE GOSPEL, DON'T GET ME WRONG, BUT I DON'T CALL SOMEONE A LIAR UNLESS I CAN BACK IT UP.

 

LASTLY: YOU SAID YOU CAN BE "PRETTY CONVINCING" IN YOUR ARGUMENTS - SO MAKE ONE. MAYBE YOU WERE JUST DIPPING YOUR PROVERBIAL TOES IN THE POOL TO CHECK THE WATER, BUT YOU KINDA PULLED AN ONLINE HIT & RUN HERE. IF YOU WANT TO SWIM, GET IN THE POOL. DON'T BE THAT KID ON THE DIVING BOARD TELLING EVERYONE ELSE HOW TO SWIM. SERIOUSLY, DO A CANNONBALL AND JUMP ON IN. MAYBE I NEED TO KEEP YOU ON YOUR TOES. HA! HA!

 

SPEAKING OF HAVING FUN: KIRK, I GOTTA GET WITH YOU, BROTHER, AND GIVE YOU A BIG HUG OR SOMETHING - OK, MAYBE JUST A COUPLE OF BEERS, BUDDY! REMEMBER: BREEEEAAAATHE.

 

 

Comment by JDad on August 21, 2012 at 11:06pm

Politics is the art of compromise, which is what politicians do (or, at least, or supposed to attempt in order to advance the interests of the nation and the body politic), and that means there is no perfect candidate of either, or any, party.  They all come with warts and imperfections and stances and ideas that may not meet all of our desires--but we have to choose and tossing out the good in pursuit of the perfect means you lose.  You don't get the good and you don't get the perfect.  In this case, that means (maybe) that our current president gets four more years to do. . .what?  Do we know?  Can we guess?  Will it be as "good" as things are now or not?  Furthermore, it isn't clear to a lot of people that "Romney doesn't stand a chance," but he certainly doesn't as long as folks think he can't win and/or don't vote for him because he's failed the perfect-candidate test. 

 

Just sayin'. . . .

Comment by Kirk Brooks on August 21, 2012 at 2:07pm

Oh yeah, one other thing ;D

Red.jpg

Comment by Kirk Brooks on August 21, 2012 at 1:56pm

Jack Flash- The choice is anything but clear. I think the current administration is a joke, I knew they would be. Unfortunately our current options aren't options. Romney doesn't stand a chance, he shouldn't be the GOP candidate. As I've stated many times, too many people have this "At least he's not the other guy" attitude. This is a replay of Clinton/Dole. The GOP refuses to learn from their mistakes, the DNC continues down it's same tax and spend road to Hell. Your earlier analogy to the Olympics was interesting but I think it missed the mark. If the American is in 5th place, I still cheer for him and support him. Do you not? Why? To say that to vote 3rd party is a vote for Obama is defeatist mentality, that's why the current President will remain in office. In other words "My guy isn't capable of getting enough votes to win unless people who don't want him in office vote for him anyway". My frustration is with a system that refuses to learn and grow. Does anyone actually think that if Romney were to somehow win that there would be overnight affluence and the world would suddenly love us? Hardly. We always settle for the lesser of the evils instead of remembering that as Americans these people are our voice. Yes, it's a republic style gov't. We elect politicians to make decisions for us and we have the right to remove them at the polls if they don't live up to our expectations. We've lowered our standards and expectations to such a pitiful level that we get what we ask for. I can think of nothing that's ever improved by lowering the standards. It's the yellow dog dem's and the hardcore right that vote the party line that think they know what's best for everyone else that keep screwing it up for those of us who are fed up with today's politics. If I have to vote 3rd party to be heard then so be it. I'd rather stand alone and shout for what's right than be a face in the crowd droning on for either of the big 2. Now on to Joseph E Shaffer III- Yes, I've seen those numbers myself, that doesn't make Romney/Ryan acceptable candidates, in fact quite the opposite. You feel that third party types are meaningless and irrelevant. Why do you need their votes so badly then. The GOP needs to do better. The only wasted vote is the vote not cast.

Comment by JDad on August 21, 2012 at 8:08am

Robert:  Welcome to the group and, for the record, my Old Man was a life-long union guy and organizer, so no animus here towards private-sector union folks.  Now, if you were a public-sector union guy, that would be different. . . ., you'd be fair game, especially these days.  My sense is that here you can express yourself as you see fit and within the friendly boundaries described above, so I'm looking forward to your posts.

 

Comment by Robert J Reel on August 21, 2012 at 1:34am

I just joined Navy Dads and because I love politics I was happy to see this group. I just spent the last few hours reading all the posts over the last couple of years. I noticed that for the last year there are very few differing opinions other than who can bash the government and especially OUR president the most. I have come to the conclusion that you all just need someone to confirm your already determined feelings. I believe you have frustrated anyone that would like to get into an honest debate on issues and they have left this forum. I am a news and politics junky and I get my news from a variety of sources, and I do research issues, as opposed to just taking the word of some Fox News(?) entertainer. I will check in regularly to keep you guys on your toes. Ha! Ha!

I am assuming you all have sons or daughters in the Navy. I never served in the military but have always supported the service men and women. My son just joined the Navy and is four weeks in to BC. I can not wait for his PIR. He will be a CTT and I can't tell you how proud his mother and I are of him.

A little about myself. I have worked for almost thirty four years now in the custom woodworking industry and have been a member of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters my whole working life. You guys get a real live union guy to bash now. Ha! Ha!

I can be pretty convincing with my arguments but I am not on here to change anyones vote or even your minds, but I hope if we disagree on an issue that I can get you to think about that issue from a different perspective. Looking forward to this group discussion.

Comment by Jack Flash on August 20, 2012 at 11:25pm

That's pathetic Joseph.

Hello Kirk Brooks--

 

I understand your frustration.  I'd like to help you better define your choices. Ask yourself, and answer if you will...

 

Do you prefer--

Redistribution of wealth?

Greater Government spending?

Bigger Government?

Government intrusion into more areas of your life?

National Healthcare, no matter the cost?

Ever expanding entitlement programs?

Global uncertainty?

Deeper debt?

 

The choice is clear.

 

 

 

 

 

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