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Comment by ctyankee on October 17, 2011 at 4:17pm

@Mike, I didn't ask for bad examples from other occupants of the White House, I said Obama has contributed nothing!  You cannot justify Obama's presidency by attacking his predecessors.

Comment by Mike Stark on October 17, 2011 at 1:28pm

I am using my own name. In fact, my nephew is using my name, along with another uncle named Michael, a grandfather named Michael and a great grandfather named Michael.

I have no idea what you are trying to insinuate, but you are almost certainly wrong, and if you think I am using an alias I am dead certain you are wrong. You appear to think I was doing a bad thing in correcting someone's assumption that I am a veteran, rather than letting it stand. I don't at all mind coming of age between wars, but I didn't want a false assumption to persist.

Comment by Elbert Steven Rakes on October 17, 2011 at 1:08pm

Mike or whoever you are you should use your own name not your Sailor's Name. I am Viet Nan era joined the Navy six months before being drafted.

Comment by Mike Stark on October 15, 2011 at 10:02am

@ctyankee -- well aren't you the young pup! I'm a few years older than Obama. I don't grudge people who don't have rich parents or grandparents getting scholarships and loans. The dude was president of Harvard Law Review, so he's obviously intelligent enough to get into any school, with the possible exception of MIT and CalTech, on the merits. You don't have to like him, but facts are stubborn things.

I'm also aware that the last three presidents have all been subject to irrational hatred bordering on derangement. Yes, even W. I believe he was the worst president of my lifetime, but I don't hate him and I would never have carried signs portraying him as Hitler.

The line between politician and statesman seems to be in the eyes of the beholder. Was Ronald Reagan a statesman? Before you answer that, consider he put the Marines in an indefensible position at the Beirut airport and he raised taxes many times. Plus he broke or didn't act on just about every promise he made to the religious right.

Heck, even terrorists get promoted to statesman late in life -- I give you Menachem Begin if you don't believe me.

 

A more useful distinction is between idealogue and pragmatist. Idealogues rarely accomplish anything lasting in this country. To go back to Reagan, if he has any claim to being a statesman rather than a politician, it is because of his pragmatic reaction to the advent of Gorbachev. Together those two pragmatists ended the cold war peacefully and started the drawdown of nuclear weapons on both sides.

Now I'll admit I like center left pragmatists, and the pragmatists around here will tend center right. But I'd expect competent stewardship from Romney and utter disaster from Perry or Cain. 

Pragmatism can go too far if it is not anchored in principle. 41 (taxes), 42 (welfare reform) and 44 (not closing Gitmo) have all been accused of this by the more hardline elements of their own parties. Even the hardheaded 43 has caught flak for wall street bailout. History will decide. 

Comment by ctyankee on October 14, 2011 at 2:53pm

Hi Mike,

  No, actually I didn't use the works "... like me.", because that's not a fair comparison!  Obama is a few years older than me, but has contributed *nothing* to the nation as a whole, I'd be willing to bet he's been the recipient of considerable largess...  A Harvard education, paid for by??? Hmmm???  He was elected to the Senate, served less than 2 years before he was out on the campaign trail...  How did that serve hie constituents, or the country???  He never made a payroll, never created a "permanent job" that wasn't government funded... 

 

No, "...like me" isn't a standard I'd try to hold him to. Like Glenn, like Cora, like Elbert, like Robert, like Wayne, like you even ;^)   Like 299,999,465 other Americans (300 million - 535 Elected Federal officials) -- that's who he isn't like.

 

And also, there is a *HUGE* difference between a Statesman and a Politician!  A Statesman may find himself surrounded by Politicians, and may even have to endure the political circus to seek election.  "... a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."  vs "lipstick on a pig".  Statesman may have to resort to the political process, but Politicians struggle to appear Statesmanly.  A Statesman does what is right, a Politician does what is expedient.  I could go on, and on, and on...  But I think I've made my point.

 

P.S. Have a great Weekend!

Comment by Mike Stark on October 14, 2011 at 8:58am

Also, all people who you revere as statesmen were once politicians.

Comment by Mike Stark on October 14, 2011 at 8:57am

@ctyankee --

you mean "being an American like me", don't you? To be pointed about it, the soldier from Compton is just as much an American as the soldier from the hollows of West Virginia.

 

Also, 

Comment by Mike Stark on October 14, 2011 at 8:52am

@glenn -- it's my nephew who is in the service. My military age was post-vietnam, pre-desert storm.

I've been in public service for 30 years, but on the civilian side. Interestingly enough, I ran into a lot of former air force weather people when I joined a joint NASA-NOAA satellite project. I think NASA's veteran population is mainly (not entirely) in the manned program.

Want to have the record correct.

Comment by Glenn Jones on October 13, 2011 at 1:14pm

Mike: Yes, Obama's ignorance, or maybe irreverance of how you address a CMH awardee is just like spitting in his face. Now we learn of his move to appologize for our bombing Hiroshema in 2009! Appologize to a counry that bombed Pearl Harbor, organized the Battan Death March, Raped Nanking...... give me a break. He's spat in all our faces, especially those of us who have worn the uniform, you included. And his killing of the Islamist Terrorists? What the Hell is he going to do if he captures one of them alive? He sure can't bring them to Gitmo, not after his first executive order of his presidency. Killing them is his only option. You need to read a little of "Rules for Radicals" if you want to get to know your president.

Comment by ctyankee on October 13, 2011 at 12:39pm

@Mike,

The lapses in etiquette, aren't the actual issue, but they are a pretty strong indicator of a deeper pattern of attitudes that are important.

 

Obama's lapses are numerous enough to demonstrate that his grasp of "being an American" is weak at best, and antagonistic at worst.  Bowing to the Saudi leader says he knows reverence, but his crotch salute to the fallen soldiers in Texas says he knows contempt too.

 

That he was OK with killing terrorists, isn't "Presidential", it's the act of a small man rattling his sabre.  He doesn't think of himself as a leader but as a ruler.  He's not a Statesman, he's a Politician.  As Commander in Chief, he takes credit for successes, but assigns blame for failures.

 

In every meaningful way, he is the opposite of what the POTUS should be.  Perry has lost his sparkle, but Herman Cain has simply stuck to the principles that have served him well in life.  For quite a while I've advocated a Cain/Gingrich ticket and my support of that ticket grows by the day.  Newt possesses a staggggggering intellect, but, has some baggage.  I'd be OK with the reverse too, but the former is far better to define a clear break with the failed policies of the past!

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