Talk Politics

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Comment by Matt B on June 29, 2011 at 3:42pm

Who is this evil George Bush character that people keep referring to, sounds to me like we need some great savior to lead us out of the mess we are in, someone who will spend a bunch of money to bring unemployment under 8% and fund all the shovel ready jobs in our great 57 states, we need a summer of recovery...O wait... Never mind.

Comment by Wayne Johnson on June 29, 2011 at 2:56pm

Philip,

You're misinformed on many issues, and it's plain where you're getting your talking points from.  You gave it away when you used the term "class envy."  This is a term used almost exclusively by Rush L.

You say you believe in the Constitution as it was written; well, which version? Does this mean that you only "believe" in the original draft and don't "believe" in the amendments? (Why do right-wingers always have to express everything as if it's a religious issue? You don't "believe" in the constitution; you follow it. Evolution and climate change are not matters of faith; they are conclusions based on scientific inquiry?)
You contradict yourself in several places. You say you "believe" in the Constitution, then illustrate your belief by quoting the Declaration of Independence.  You mention you "believe" like the founding fathers did, limited government (not mentioned in the Constitution), personal freedom (defined as what?) and ability to keep and bear arms (a favorite of the right wing). If you are adhere to the Constitution with its amendments (keep and bear arms WHEN YOUR A MEMBER OF A MILITIA is the 2nd amendment), yet you say that the collection of taxes by the government is theft, yet the 16th amendment gives government the right to collect income taxes.

The Progressive do not vilify wealth nor "wealth creators;" they oppose the ABUSE of wealth and its role in subverting our democracy.

The statement about government "taking my money and giving it to others is theft" is meaningless (see 16th Amendment to Constitution), and points out the main fear of the right wing: that someone is going to take their money, or guns, or freedom away and give it to someone who is "less deserving" than they are.  When we formed our government we gave it the power to do things for the citizenry that we, as individuals cannot do alone.  We give the government out taxes and the government spends those dollars on everyone.  Can you build an interstate highway to where you want to go? Can you raise a military to defend this country by yourself?

So many of the right wing are screaming talking points about the national debt these days. President Obama's policies have not substantially added to the debt compared to the previous administration. What is different is that President Bush started 2 wars by invading and occupying 2 countries and never told us how much it cost.  All his war spending was done by "emergency appropriation," and thus was not reported in the budget, but was added to the debt. When Obama took office, he just added the numbers that Bush had been hiding from us for 8 years.

Crony capitalism is the hallmark of the GW Bush administration, where corporate representatives were appointed to regulatory agencies, therefore making corporations able to write the regulations governing their businesses with no oversight.

Finally, equal wealth redistribution to the citizenry may be socialism, but concentration of wealth to a small group of politically-connected individuals (redistribution UP) with the help of the government is called Fascism.

Comment by Ray Norberto on June 29, 2011 at 12:38pm

Damn, Thomas Jefferson was pretty clear headed and brilliant for our nation's first legendary party animal! Although I suspect all the Founding Fathers fit under both headings!

Comment by ctyankee on June 29, 2011 at 8:58am

Well said Philip!

Comment by Philip Greaves on June 28, 2011 at 11:34pm

I’m not sure what is considered far right these days but I do know the bench mark keeps moving left. It may be economic or social issues, but ok you got me.  I’m a far right conservative nut job.  I believe in the Constitution as it was written. I don’t believe it is outdated and obsolete. I believe as the founding fathers did. Limited government, personal freedom and personal responsibility, Private property and the ability to keep and bear arms.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

The progressive movement has done a remarkable job at villainizing wealth and wealth creators. Class envy is the mantra of the Democratic Party these days. Wealth redistribution by any name is stll socialism. This is the most generous nation on earth. I give freely to charitable organizations of my choice. The government taking my money and giving it to other individuals is theft. Jobs are created by entrepreneurs seeking profit for themselves and family. In the process they create jobs. Bail outs to Goldman Sachs, AIG, and the Union contributors at GM and Chrysler, not to mention General Electric. Crony capitalism at its finest.

This administration gets the glory and several top execs from Sachs as well. Who could have guessed?

The debt alone from Obama, Pelosi and Reed, is enough to kill any chance that are children or grandchildren will ever be able to free themselves from this burden. (I know its George Bush’s fault.)

OK it really is in part. Never said he was a fiscal conservative.

We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
We must make our election between economy and liberty
or profusion and servitude.
If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and
in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and
our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...
[we will] have no time to think,
no means of calling our miss-managers to account
but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves
to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers...
And this is the tendency of all human governments.
A departure from principle in one instance
becomes a precedent for [another ]...
till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery...
And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt.
Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression."

Thomas Jefferson

Damm  these  old farts

Comment by Wayne Johnson on June 28, 2011 at 10:00am

I would have to agree with Kirk. None of the current republican candidates are viable... all have some baggage that will hurt them, or they are just not serious candidates. How the republicans can seriously proffer as candidates the likes of Bachmann, Gingrich, Santorum, and *groan* Herman Cain is beyond me. These 4 are clowns, scam artists and hypocrites of the highest order.  None of those currently running are serious candidates.  Remember, as you are listening to any of these candidates catering to the far-right-wing by spouting brainless diatribes that border on incendiary, anarchistic, or even treasonous, that if elected, they would be the president of the WHOLE UNITED STATES. 

My main concern is that all of the republican candidates are way, way, WAY too influenced by wealth and corporate money.  And to a much greater degree than the democrats (who are, of course, not totally clean of such evil influences).

There's no shame in my government having empathy and compassion for its citizens. I prefer a government that serves ALL my countrymen, not just the few whose income is 10,000 times higher than mine.

Unfortunately, there has not been a republican president or candidate like that since Dwight Eisenhower, who was a true man of principle, a value missing in most of today's republicans.

Comment by Kirk Brooks on June 28, 2011 at 9:31am

A bigger question would be who is electable? Bachmann and Romney seem to be making the most noise right now but I don't know if either are electable.  Gingrich, Santorum, Pawlenty, and Paul are essentially jokes. The reality is that whether or not an individual defines themselves as a liberal or conservative most people are relatively moderate in their views and when parties have candidates that reside on far ends of the spectrum they will alienate the main stream public and they will lose. The current administration is only in office because more people were voting against GW Bush rather than voting for him. Unfortunately the GOP still wants to pound the far right into people and it's going to turn off too many voters and they will lose again. I've voted Republican 99% of the time but I think the wheels came off of their wagon during the last election and they still haven't figured it out.

Comment by Wayne Johnson on June 28, 2011 at 6:30am

Hey, IYam-- Great piece of memorabilia.  Were we both alive when Paulsen made his bid for the presidency?  Do you remember which party he was running with? 

It was the Straight-Talking American Government party...

The S.T.A.G. Party!

Comment by Philip Greaves on June 27, 2011 at 11:28pm

I have no idea who is liberal or who is a conservative in this group but If defeating Obama is the goal then only a true passionate conservative can do it. Romney or Huntsman are both luke warm at best and Huntsman is left of moderate. Choose carefully. Moderates are middle of the road kind of politicians. ie  road kill

Comment by Ray Norberto on June 27, 2011 at 1:47pm

Nice, I Yam! Not only do I remember the Carson skits, Michele, but I also remember his bits of business on The Smothers Brothers! One of the greatest deadpan faces ever. Hey I Yam, I have to get my hands on one of those posters! It would look good as a bumper magnet under my Navy parent sticker!

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