Son seriously screwed up - I can really use some advice

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Permalink Reply by Sammy Young on July 17, 2013 at 6:25pm

Your son is completely at the mercy of his Commanding Officer. Typically, he/she will have a choice: The Gold Plate Special, which means that he will be retained in the Navy but he will be booted from the Nuke Program because he has proven himself to be unreliable and unable to keep a security clearance because of these 2 DUIs. Highly doubtful because he the Navy has spent all this money training him in the most cutting edge technology in the world and now he will be unable to perform it. So, money wasted is money lost, so he will more than likely get the Blue Plate Special, which would again be his Commander's discretion- he could get a "BC" (Bad Conduct), a "INC" (Incompatible with Naval Service), or an "DND" (Dishonorable Discharge). All of these mean that he will never get a job in the federal government, not eligible for ANY Veterans benefits, and will have to make an excuse as to what he has been doing for the past 2 years while in Nuke School because he will then have to admit he got kicked out- employer's are not stupid.

Sorry to be so bleak and glum and blunt, but as a retired Chief, I saw many a fine sailor make the same sad mistakes and had no choice but to send them packing after the second occurrence. My reasoning was simple- we just put you through the highest tech school in the world absolutely free and the only thing we ask you to do is to follow our rules for a couple years. And if you don't like it, get out after you reach your EAOS and we part as friends. But until then- FOLLOW THE BLOODY RULES!

And one more point, if I may make it- your son has more than likely told you what I affectionately called "Barracks Rumor #1" that almost every sailor that gets into serious trouble hears and repeats- which is complete BS. That rumor is "It's OK- if you get a bad discharge, the Navy will "upgrade" it to honorable after 2 years!" Sir, I can assure you that is a complete and boldface lie spread around for at least the past 200 years now. The fact of the matter is that you MAY request the Navy Judge Advocate to appeal your case and see if you can get it upgraded, but of the NJA will be glad to tell you that out of a given 1,000 appeals like this they see a year, only ONE gets overturned on the average. So, it's BS. So if he repeats that lie to you or your wife, you can call him on it. 

But please do one thing I couldn't do when I was a Chief and can do now, which is communicate with the troubled sailors parents- your son clearly messed-up badly on this. Be his parent, but please don't be his enemy. He needs a parent now more than ever.

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Permalink Reply by Sammy Young on July 17, 2013 at 6:47pm

PS- see the following link that will explain everything i said before in detail straight from the horse's mout= the Navy Personnel Command: http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/organization/npc/publicaffair...

And attached is a document from the Navy handbook for dealing with alcohol related incidents like this.

Attachments:

• ch3SUMMARY53504D.doc, 62 KB

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Permalink Reply by Sammy Young on July 17, 2013 at 6:59pm

OK, I am rambling now, but to your last point- as a Chief, I always gave my sailors at least another chance (depending of course how bad the infraction was). One of those chances included getting the sailor help because he obviously has something going on with him to cause him to flamboyantly violate regulations like that (especially if they are Nukes, whom are supposed to be the smartest guys in the Navy). So if that includes a trip to the drunk tank, then so be it. I want to try to fix 'em before I street 'em.

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Permalink Reply by Roger Reed on July 17, 2013 at 11:18pm

Sad Dad, I wish I could offer some advice but I did not serve so I don't know what is going to happen.The only thing I can offer is a prayer and hold out hope that your son does get another chance. I didn't know someone could go to Captain's mast twice and still stay in. Hopefully he was not driving in either incident because I was told a DUI would result in immediate separation in today's Navy.Then again, I was told the same thing about sailors that went UA and my nephew some 10 years ago went UA from his ship for 2 months and was masted. He was in the brig for about 45 days, and I believe lost pay and rank but he was sent back to his ship and ended up finishing his term and getting a honorable discharge. Relevant? No, but I just wanted to give you some support and a ray of hope if at all possible.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Mount on July 18, 2013 at 5:41am

PM sent

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Permalink Reply by NavyDads Admin (Paul) on July 18, 2013 at 9:09am

Regardless of what happens he is still your flesh and blood and that fundamental over weighs everything....he needs support and you need support and when you finally get to meet up have a good hug and a good cry together I think you'll be amazed at how unburdened you will all feel.  It will not change what happened but perhaps will reinforce the ties that bind you together as a family. We're here for you to vent and get support....we don't tend to sugarcoat things on Navy Dads so some things might sting a little but we're all family in the Navy journey together!

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Permalink Reply by SSG LoGiudice on July 25, 2013 at 9:08am

SadDad, hmmm let me reflect on myself and my years as a Marine. We stood by our brothers when they screwed up, and the ones that couldn't get their shit together eventually washed out. I'm now in 17 years and haven't had a DUI issue, which doesn't mean I never did...I just didn't get caught. And thankfully so...I do however have many friends that have one or two or even three. It isn't a Scarlet Letter and they can move on with their life. Some societies look hard at military personnel and drinking while others look away. This is a wake-up call for your son...my 19 y/o daughter is in the USN as a Seabee...do you think they drink? She is a female in a male-dominated field...trust me she is honest with me and says she could drink 7days a week if she wanted. She drinks on the weekend...and so did I. I've seen so much public drunkenness in the service, hell I couldn't find my way back to the ship in the Philippines, a SP and two Marines carried me back. I ended up puking in the berthing area and got bent til morning. I didn't do it again. It seems like he runs with a wild crowd, and the military attracts all types. My daughters entire Battalion lost leave, liberty and had additional duty for one Sailor that had gotten a DUI...they take it serious now...especially with the cuts coming down from the top. $600 Billion in 20 years. Im suspecting this will usher out many troubled service members, personal and financial problems, fat bodies, ling term medical profiles, the alcohol incidences are the fast track out of the military. It is embarrassing and can be a huge liability. Service men and women are able to drink at a young age, not much unlike college. They need to make it a punishable offense by giving underage Sailors alcohol. This would climate or at least minimize a lot of the underage fraternization that goes on. Don't shun him out of your life...we all made embarrassing and costly mistakes...while I would normally agree with you by forcing him to grow up, by not taking him back into your home it is possible to into it could make his drinking problem worse. I would probably be an alcoholic if my parents didn't talk to me....just saying. What would I do?
I would communicate respectfully with his commanding officer and find out what expected of him, a team approach could give him the support he needs. It is my experience that ANY alcohol events immediately put you on a short list for expulsion. I had a nephew-in-law that was kicked out of the Nuke program as well..for his weight. He got an excellent job is an energy facility in PA and is currently making 6 digits. Tell him to keep his nose clean, request to the CO that he be offered drug rehab before he gets out. This may help...if he was previously offered rehab and successfully finished it and had a 2nd event...its safe to say, 3rd strike. If he is well like by his peers and CO, they may stand behind him...tell him not to burn ANY bridges while he is going through this tough transition. It's touch being labeled a shit-bird and losing rank. Be the best E1 Nuke grad he can be. I hope they don't pull him out of his rated MOS and place him on KP the rest of his career. He does need to advocate from himself. Commuting to a drug-free rest of his career could be a good start...have him sign a contract with his peers and CO (and you and mom) that he will remain drug-free. He should not sign it if he thinks there is no way he can comply. This is a last chance...reminds me of a local saloon with the same name. Good luck and I hope it helps. I have a son that is on the ropes in his civilian life...he doesn't get a break for nothing. I wish you the best and PM me with any questions. -M

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Permalink Reply by SSG LoGiudice on July 25, 2013 at 9:16am

Public drunkenness! How bad of an offense it that? Was he running around naked or just peeing on a tree? Almost everyone on this wall has been drunk in public at least once in their life...I think it's absurd what they do with this. It's my opinion and he was 21 and legal. It might not be as bad as you think.

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Permalink Reply by John H'ausen on July 25, 2013 at 10:49am

I can't offer any advice from the Navy side, but as a father, we have to let them fall and pick themselves back up.  While it breaks our hearts to see them fall victims of their own self destructive behavior, it is behavior that they chose to partake in.  They are not children any longer and might have to flounder and struggle until they find the proper course for their lives.  I am the father of three sons and have come to realize that we have limited ability to affect the lives of our sons.  Each of my sons has a unique character, intelligence, morality and creativity.  What they do with it is completely out of my power.  I can set the boundaries and show them what is right and wrong, but in the end, they will choose to honor them or ignore them.  We know boys from great families that crash and burn and boys from tragic families who triumph over every obstacle in their path.  We can no more claim the victories as the defeats.  Your boy needs to accept responsibility for his actions.  He will either choose to learn from them or let them define him, but it is still his choice.  If he gets booted he will have a long hard road ahead of him, but it is his road, not yours.  If he stays, he will have to choose to honor that and realize that whatever his situation changes to, it is a place where he put himself.  Our hearts can ache for them, but until they choose to change, they will stay the same.  And good on the Navy for sending him to rehab.  If he stays it benefits them, if he leaves it benefits him.

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